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XDogsoldierX
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Post subject: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:42 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:01 am Posts: 15 Location: Mo.
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Todd Hathaway
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:59 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:01 am Posts: 636 Location: Central New York
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Malcolm MacWatt
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:11 am |
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:01 am Posts: 49 Location: Scotland UK
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XDogsoldierX
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:16 pm |
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:01 am Posts: 15 Location: Mo.
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Dave T
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:52 pm |
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 744 Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Todd Hathaway
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 6:22 am |
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:01 am Posts: 636 Location: Central New York
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Malcolm MacWatt
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:13 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:01 am Posts: 49 Location: Scotland UK
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Todd Hathaway
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:47 pm |
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:01 am Posts: 636 Location: Central New York
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The difference is indicated by the key phrase "place the tip of the arrow at an imaginary point." When you gap shoot, are you aware of what point in the distance (rock, leaf, imaginary, etc.) your arrow tip is "touching". I know I'm not...I just notice a vertical distance between tip and target. And an air gap can be a hard thing to duplicate.
Here is one quote from an article written on Hill in Popular Science:
"Hill uses the end of an arrow like the peep sight of a rifle. He draws halfway between the low draw of a target archer and his eye. At fifty yards, he shoots point-blank. Beyond that distance, he elevates his bow and really aims either at a fixed or an imaginary point upward and slightly to the right of his quarry. He keeps both eyes fixed on the game, and when, out of the corner of his eyes, he sees the arrow come in line with his “aiming point,” he lets fly."n
And another:n
"[Howard] nocked the arrow, aimed twenty feet above the bird at a tassel of pine needles, and loosed his arrow..."n
This clearly show he put his tip on a specific point.
The full article is here:
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longbowguy
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:48 am |
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:01 am Posts: 303 Location: Sacramento, CA
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I think there is secondary issue here. That is this business of 'slightly to the right of his quarry'. Mr. Hill said that in this article and in several of the pieces he wrote in the 1930s and 40s. He evidently taught the below and to the right method to his pupils, including John Schultz, who repeated the 'to the right' business in his popular book which is still being marketed.
But Mr. Hill was using selfbows in the 1930s and into the 1940s, with no arrow shelves. His final design had fibreglas backs and bellies and and cut-out arrow shelves, still less than centershot.
The ones I shoot do not require holding to the right. And I don't believe his did either. I believe with the later, fully developed design, we should abandon this business of holding to the right. Those times are long past.
But....if you are over-bowed, as many who are attracted to the Hill legend are, you may need to hold to the right to hit your mark. This is, I think, a common but aggregious error.
Make no mistake in this matter. If you are not over-bowed you can expect and tune your arrows to shoot straight down the line.
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Todd Hathaway
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 5:48 am |
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:01 am Posts: 636 Location: Central New York
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I agree....properly tuned should go straight. I think he held off because he was left-eye dominant. Not sure why Schulz does the same.
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Malcolm MacWatt
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:17 am |
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 3:01 am Posts: 49 Location: Scotland UK
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Yes but... Hill describes many accounts of kills on moving targets at all ranges. I would think it would be difficult to pick an actual aiming spot in those situations - choosing a gap has to be easier.
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XDogsoldierX
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:03 am |
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Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:01 am Posts: 15 Location: Mo.
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being left eye dominant that sorta changes everything too because I shoot the same way and the arrow is WAY to the right...I dont close my left eye or squint I aim with my left eye...does anyone know if hill squinted or closed the left eye?
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longbowguy
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:36 am |
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:01 am Posts: 303 Location: Sacramento, CA
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Photos and films indicate that he did not. Actually, many of the greats of our sport were cross-eye dominant. Enough that rather than being a disadvantage, I suspect that it may actually aid instinctive shooting at the shorter and middle distances.
Second, I don't believe he 'picked a spot' other than the one he intended to hit. And he wrote that he did not consider himself a gap shooter. I think be this he meant that he did not calculate a gap in feet or inches.
He said he focused on the point he intended to het and saw his arrow in his 'secondary vision.' I think the difference between that and a gap is numbers. I find I shoot better if I leave numbers out of it, in the gap and in ranging. I see angles and distance and I shoot. Figuring numbers interferes with my concentration and slows me down. See, shoot, hit. No arithmetic!
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Dave T
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:35 am |
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:01 am Posts: 744 Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Todd Hathaway
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Post subject: Re: POA shooters -Howard Hill Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 11:59 am |
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:01 am Posts: 636 Location: Central New York
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