Stickbow Target Archery Forums

Guys some news from the "neverending" story - rules for longbow devision:n
he IFAA Committee has voted in favour of the following longbow rules
They will be enforced as from 15 March 2004.

* The longbow division excludes the use of a stabilizer. Adding weight to the riser of the longbow is tantamount to using a stabilizer and is therefore not permitted
* Sighting devices are not allowed in the longbow division. The use of rings on the arrows provides the archer with a physical sighting device and is not permitted
* The use of a tennis style wrap would allow the archer to move his/her hand up and down on the handle and is regarded as a physical sighting method. The use of this type of wrap is not permittedn
Some comments to this:
a) The ruling about additional weight in the handle is in opposition to the general rule that a longbow can be made of any material. Quote: "7. Longbow - (L.B.)n
a. A one piece straight ended bow of any material, which when strung displays one continued unidirectional curve, which is measured as follows:"n
b) the ruling about rings at arrows is in direct opposition to the rules for the bowhunting turnaments / as well as to the common practise to mark arrows:
Quote: "6. EQUIPMENT (Shooting equipment to be as defined by the I.F.A.A. By-Laws).

a. Arrows must be clearly marked by rings. One ring for the first arrow, two rings for the second arrow and three rings for the third arrow. Arrows are to be shot in ascending order, first arrow first. If an archer accidentally shoots the wrong arrow first, he/she must immediately declare that fact to the Group Captain (Target Captain)."n
Finally the thing with the "tennis style wrap": Some longbow-manufacturers deliver their bow in original with a leather wrap at the handle. Are this also not permitted? By the way - I did move my hand at the handle - simply because there is a better gripping feeling on long distances. (as a joke I told an South-African Archer that this is a aiming method on long distances - and this leaded to this ruling.
Personally I feel the rubber warp as a very good method to avoid slippage while drawing (wet hands, rainy conditions) which is more a safety issue than anything else.
Strange by the way that no archer was asked about the feasibility of this rulings at first, secondly the "technical comittee" should first read their own rules to avoid frustration and irritation of archers spending quite some money to go to international turnaments.
Have already learned that some German Archers are taking their consequences by staying at home!n
Isn't that something to thing about???

I've seen some Longbows with Micarta in the Riser, would this now be considered stabilisation and if it is, how would the judges prove what materials are being used in the Bow apart from relying on the Archer to tell the truth.
How do you differentiate between building strength into a bow and adding weight for stabilisation, apart from the obvious metal inserts.

Martin, the weighted riser issue came about because of the use of lead inserts in the riser section. As you know this was purely a stabilization issue
Yet again the IFFA have shot themselves in the foot with some very poor wording in their rules.

I would love to know who the technical committee are, because their constant rule amendments is not encouraging archers to shoot in the longbow division.

But there again if an archer does have a lump of lead in their riser then they should be disqualified.

Redbow....if lead would disqualify an individual why then wouldn't ebony or mahongany cores? Does a bow have to be one piece or can you shoot a two piece....larger handle section, more weight..illegal? These guys are full of crap.

The weighting of the riser is subjective. "My wood is heavier than your wood. Therefore I must be weighting my riser for stabiliztion purposes!"n
All the earlier discussion we had about the IFAA and their ignorance is proven by the new rulings
Who every said play by the rules...or take your toys and go home is a little obnoxious concerning these folks....heck you can't determine the rules..

Shot themselves in the foot is an understatement.

I can't believe I even took time to post about this.....looser organization.

If there are problems at the Outdoor Nationals I sure hope it doesn't come from these burps.

Art

I suspect the amateurishly concocted, and obfuscated, riser weight rule was intended to mean "just don't add riser weight". It'll be interesting to see how manmade riser material gets treated - specially a riser of blended wood and polymers!
The "tennis grip wrap" thing is just plain stupid. Geez Louise. It's so unbelievably amazing that they'll nitpick on this minutiae and yet back way off when it comes to allowing stealth r/d longbow compete with a Hill-style longbow. :confused:
The FITA longbow rules fiasco continues ... truly, how unfortunate for all of archery.

Maybe I missed something but I think that everyone is reading into the new changes way too much! What is so complicated with the changes? Read them exactly the way they are written.

* The longbow division excludes the use of a stabilizer. Adding weight to the riser of the longbow is tantamount to using a stabilizer and is therefore not permitted.

* Sighting devices are not allowed in the longbow division. The use of rings on the arrows provides the archer with a physical sighting device and is not permitted.

* The use of a tennis style wrap would allow the archer to move his/her hand up and down on the handle and is regarded as a physical sighting method. The use of this type of wrap is not permittedn
Let look at these one at a time:n
You cannot "ADD weight" to a riser. What is difficult about that? Altering a riser section to have a hollow cavity which is filled with some type of heavy material would qualify as "Adding Weight" and is banned. Hasn't that has always been an unknown rule?
I'm quite sure logic would prevail if you ring your arrows by the fletching it would be acceptable. It would be impossible to use them as sighting aides. However if you are ringing the tips I could see the problem.
Last you can't riser walk which basically is the same principle as string walking or having multiple anchors which is also banned from the class anyway. There are numerous other materials out there that don't have grooves, lines, or layers that are just as effective to use as a grip material. They only mention wrapped grips not solid rubber or leather grips.
Maybe I am just ignorant but it all sounds pretty clear to me!!!!!! Or did I miss something?

Art its very simple, one cannot have stabilization on a longbown A weighted riser is one that has a stabilization component in it
So it follows if you allow weighted internal stabilization you then by definition you have to allow any and all forms of stabilization e. g long rods and v bars.

As for Ebony, well its hard to work with and tends to crack with time. So yes, for those two reasons I would ban it
This is not a wood issue, it is a metal issue, and at any rate I think the IFFA has stipulated that a longbow cannot have an "over" built riser (I have no clue as to what that really means but I suspect it may mean nor recurve style risers with longbow limbs).

As for the IFAA been a loser organizations,,,,,,, I have found that this organization has allowed me to meet people I never would have. It has let me shoot in parts of the world I would never have gone too.

Shooting in the Italian Alps was simply breath taking
Shooting in the heart of Illinois countryside with the company of Manfred Gurka of Germany and Bruno Rushmyer of France at the 2001 World bowhunter Champs was an experience that will stay with me
Meeting and shooting with Larry Yien in Florida was an education.

I have found the IFFA to be a great organizationn With a real claim to been a World Championship for longbow shooters.

But I would say that, I actually shoot in their events:)

Art, a long while back we all had a discussion about these issues. I would like to bring up an issue again. What everyone has to remember is this. IFAA did not just pull this stuff out of their butt and decide to do it. Once again, it is the competitors bitching at them that they think someone else has an advantage and they want them to stop it or do something about it. It is the guys shooting the bows that are creating this, and always has been. If no one complained the rules would not be nearly as bad. Everyone is worried about the medals. Don't get me wrong. It's nice to win them, and maybe have the ego to claim the fame for a period of time, but there are simply to many ways to become famous in this sport without having to have the medals. Look at Byron Furgesson (however you spell it)Thats a joke.But my point is you don't have to win to become a famous archer. Just go shoot and don't worry about the next guy.Try to beat him with what you have.It's kinda like me taking 15th place at a PGA tournement and bitching that the only reason Tiger Woods won was because he had better rubber in his ball. Please!! Don

Gapmastern This has nothing to do with bitching about the rules, it's about the IFAA making rules that can be interpreted by different people in different ways, I think that everyone has the same goal in wanting the competition fair.
Like many people I'm on a tight budget and I've spent a lot of money on flights, hotels etc, I would be very annoyed if I turned up to Watkins Glen to find that on inspection my Longbow it's declared illegal when my own country's officials have also inspected my Longbow and told me it's legal for IFAA, this happened in Italy last year and though it was sorted out after some negotiations I found it very unsettling, trust me it’s the last thing you want before a big competition.

Martin has said that some of his countrymen have pulled out because of the new rules and it is a shame because I know from experience that some of the best Longbow shooters in the World live in Germany and Austria, it’s not because their Longbows are illegal but because they don't want to go through the kind of hassle I went through in Italy, it’s getting to a point where Archers are refusing to travel outside their own country, preferring to wait until WFAC comes to them.
If the IFAA wants to promote and encourage Archery it has to install a level of confidence in the competitors, meaning we have some peace of mind in everyone fully understanding the wording of the rules.

What Martin and Steve just said.n
When you continue to offer an ambiguity of rules, you create confusion, concern, frustration and uncertainty.
How could anyone possibly think of seriously competing in the IFAA longbow division with such muddy gear rules? Would you risk your dollars and time by investing in travel from Europe or Western USA or from wherever to compete at the Glenn and not know for sure if your longbow will make the cut? That's absurd.
It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to lay the rules out in a clear and logical manner. No one wants the IFAA to succeed more than me ... but boy, does it ever need a wakeup call when it comes to management.
Will they ever get their act together? I sure hope so. :help:

I am not sure I understand the need for restrictions on the type of grip wrap you use. With everybody apparently watching everyone else like a hawk why not just make a simple statement that only one consistent grip location may be used. Just like they say only one consistent anchor point or one consistent finger placement on the string in some rule books. As someone pointed out there are lots of ways to walk your bow hand up and down the riser. The laces on the front of a leather grip would serve that purpose.

DWS

Redbow....I didn't say anything about the quality of individuals you meet in international competition....I made my comments about the organization. Like Charlie Brown says, "People I love, it's humanity I can't stand...." I've never found traditional archery people to be anything but gracious folks...well, there's a couple I could do without...but what the hey! I'm sure they think the same of me.
Todd....Way to funny....rotflmao
n
Redbow....the Alps look as beautiful without an archery tournament. Unless the IFAA or the USA is paying the bill to get you there. Then they're reeeeeeeally pretty.

Texas Longbow Championships have the best rules I've seen governing longbows. They have a jig to put the riser in....if it don't fit you can't shoot it. Only other two rules are...string can't touch the limb before the nock and the last rule....have fun. The toughest 3-D longbow shoot in the country. (By the way; all 21st Century longbows qualify without having to be manipulated to be legal.)n
Simple....it's American.

This is too funny. Some guy from Tanzania desides someone has an advantage because of the wrap on a bow grip...hahhahahahaha and get the rules changed hahahahahahah. This organization is floppier than Bill Clinton...hope I didn't insult anyone on the left coast. :wow:
Man! like Larry said, "I need to get out more!"n
Everyone shoot and have fun....it is just to much fun

Art