Stickbow Target Archery Forums

O.K., this is gonna take some explaining, so bear with me. I've been shooting 1913s out of my FITA bow. They are cut to 27.5" with 125gr one piece points and 4" feathers. When I bareshaft them I shoot bullet holes and they fly like dreams. But I've noticed after shooting the bow for a couple weeks that my draw length has extended and the aluminums are too short. Needing new arrows, I thought I'd give those skinny little carbons a try. So I got 1/2 doz. Easton Redlines. They are spined at .780" (weaker than the 1913s, which spine at .733"). I had them cut to 28.5" with 3" feathers and 100gr one piece points. The mystery is that when I bareshaft them, they show too stiff! How can this be? They're .047" weaker in deflection, one inch longer, and only 25grs lighter in point weight. Plus with the additional length, I'm probably pulling and additional 2# in bow weight. My bow is a Samick Agulla, 68", 40#. Does anyone have an explanation? I'm at a total loss.

Ben, thanks for the explanation. I wondered about recovery rates, but never really thought it thru.

Jack, were both deflections measured on/28" centers?

1. I believe carbons and aluminum arrows are spined differently. Carbons all seem much stiffer than the corresponding aluminum arrow.

2. With a lighter total arrow weight, you need a weaker spine.

3. Carbons "recover" differently than aluminum arrows. As an example, increasing the point weight has much less effect on carbon arrows.

Yes Vic, both arrows were spined on 28" centers and my experience (limited tho it may be) seems to bear out what JimK says about point weight not having as much affect as it does with aluminum. I initially tried 82gr one piece points and got the same 2" tear in paper that I did with 100gr points. The thing that really bothers me is that I think I'd have to go to the next weaker size Redlines to get the right spine and that would be 900s which the Easton charts would indicate should be for recurves less than 32# (not even on the chart it's so weak.) What affect does lengthening a carbon arrow have? Will another inch in length get me 5# weaker arrows? My problem is that I can't go much longer or my clicker won't reach.

IMO, alums and carbons are spined way differently. At least with alums there is only one manufacturer, so it's easy to make comparisons in order to find the right alum shaft. With the myriad of carbon shaft vendors, it's incredibly difficult to sort out what shaft sizes will work for a given draw length and draw weight - and they can be finicky to tune. I think this is about the only reason why alums are still popular these dayze - they're pretty much "plug'n'play". YMMV.

I don't see how FITA archers who shoot X-10s can afford to experiment to find the right shaft: $300/doz (and they won't let you buy less than a matched dozen), $140/doz for tungsten tips, and $20 for nocks and vanes; you're close to half a grand, just to try 'em.

I shoot X-10s from my Olympic recurve bow and have for 6 years.

First, the tungston points are not necessary. buty the less expensive stainless steel ones.

Picking the correct spine the first time is a problem. I was given the size to buy , 550, by a friend of my wife at Easton. I shot 38# @ 29" draw at the time. They were way too stiff so I got 600s. Still too stiff. So were 650s. I now shoot and have been shooting 700s which tune easily. Very expensive learning process but fortunately I have sold all of the unused shafts. I am now down to 35# and fortunately can still use the 700s.

In a recent article by Adcock he has a chart on how to select arrow spine for traditional bows. Sounded great till I got to the end where he recommended that you try 2-3 spines above and below that recommended in his chart.

The bottom line for all of us is that spine selection relates not only to your equipment but how you shoot it. Once you get a good match for a setup you can come close if you change equipment.

When I was shooting my 40-lb Bob Lee, I had a similar, although less drastic, experience going from 2016s to Redline 520s. The 2016s flew great -- the Redlines, spined just a tad stiffer, flew way stiff with 80-grain points, still stiff with 90-grain, and fine with 100-grain points. I didn't bareshaft mine -- but called them stiff because they kicked sideways coming out of the bow.

Now that you are shooting a FITA bow, can you handle this with your cushion plunger?

AC, I might be able to handle it with the plunger, but I was using Rick Stonebraker's "Tuning For Tens", which calls for first finding a bareshaft that will shoot close to bullet holes with a rigid button, then fletching the shafts and fine tuning them with the walk-back method by using your button. I could probably get the 780 Redlines to spine correctly if I could get 125gr points for them, but the heaviest points they come in are 100gr. I think tho that I'm going to try some Easton Vectors in an 840 spine with 100gr points and see if they don't work. If that fails, I'm going back to good old tin; at least I understand how it works.

Cool on the 28" centers Jack, was just a thought. I have VERY limited experience w/carbons but luckily got my 1st doz (GTs off of eBay) to bareshaft nicely (had to use the plunger adj tho, so not perfect tune), anyhow they shoot much better'n I can hold. >grin< Good luck, I'm sure you'll get settled in.