Stickbow Target Archery Forums

Has anyone had good luck with bare shaft testing? I have had good success comparing identical fletched shafts with broadheads and field points to determine if the spine is correct but when I use the same shaft without fletching the results are horrible. Why is that?n
The particular setup I'm speaking of is a Samick Hawkeye (Black Widow look-a-like) with a 35# draw (39# at my draw length) using 30" 2016's and 125 gr tips. The bare shafts hit way right which as I understand it would indicate weak spine?

There are many different opinions on bare shaft tuning. I have tried all of the bare shaft methods and have not yet made up my mind of their value.

To begin with, a bare shaft is lighter and slightly weaker than its fletched counterpart(putting weight, fletches, on the back end of a shaft increases its dynamic spine). With this is mind, the bare shaft should hit higher and to the right (right handed archer) of a fletched shaft. Most bare shaft methods call for it hitting in the middle of the group.

The only thing I have settled on is that a bare shaft test helps set nocking point. I adjust my nocking point to get it to hit at the top of my group at 30m.

I have concluded that terrible bad shaft flight at 30m indicates that my shaft spine is not matched to my bow. I try to find what shaft size or pressure button setting gives me good flight. By that time the bare shaft is hitting close to my group at 30m. I now tune by minor adjustments in button pressure.

I must end by saying that a friend, Frank Pierson, told me to ignore bare shaft testing since "they" passed a new rule that arrows may use fletches. His editorial or using bare shafts.

As Bill said, a bare shaft is weaker, so you will get them flying to the right. Have you tried winding a couple turns of masking tape where the feathers normally would be, just to make it a bit stiffer, but keeping it bare shaft?

I used to bare shaft at 20yrds and 30yrds to select the right arrow/point for my longbow. I'd just select the combo that flew straight up the center and fletch them up. Now, I bare shaft thru paper at 15ft and use it to select nocking point and shaft/point combo. If I can get a clean or close to clean bullet hole, I figure the difference fletching will make is minimal in terms of spine and will be corrected by the fletching anyway. With the FITA bow, once I've selected the arrow/point combo, I then use the walk back method to tune, using the pressure button. But on the longbow, I still just bare shaft at 15th and have been perfectly satisfied. As an added check with the longbow, I then paper shoot the fletched shafts at 6ft (before the fletching has a chance to correct the arrow coming off the shelf) and consistently get bullet holes.

I barely shaft at all.
Since I started my approach to aiming using Jim Ploen's methods, I found that as long as the arrows were reasonably well matched in weight, spine and balance, I could get them to group pretty well (good form willing). In fact, heavier spined arrows usually work better for this kinda aiming (aiming the shaft, that is). As always, YMMV.

I've had great luck bareshaft testing. I re-read Easton's "Arrow Tuning and Maintenance Guide" every year or so and it has an excellent description of bareshaft testing. I've heard Bill's suggestion that fletching adds weight which ups the spine of the arrow and agree in principle but have never been able to prove it with arrow flight. I've gone to the length of cutting off the barbules of the feather or tall part of the vane, leaving the quill and glue on for weight and can't tell the difference. I generally only bareshaft test out to 20 to 30 yards, so maybe the difference takes place beyond that range. I do like to bareshaft a little weak to make up for a shorter draw when I get tired when hunting or at field shoots.
When I first started bareshaft testing, I had preconceived ideas of what shafting should fly well out of my bows that made things very difficult. When done properly, bareshaft testing will work. If you try to force the results, there's little point to the experimentation. If 2216s fly REALLY stiff, they probably are. If they fly REALLY weak, yep, you guessed it, they probably are. Instead of fighting it, try a different shaft or three or four until you find what does fly well and work with that shaft. I have a box of assorted aluminum, POC, and carbon shafting ready to go that allows me to find a properly spined shaft in a few minutes of shooting.
My very first try at bareshaft testing was with a 61# Bear T/D that I knew shot 2216s quite well - and had been doing so for years. I bareshaft tested it just for the fun of it knowing full well the results would be satisfying. The first shot went wildly left of the entire bale, hit my house, and broke the XX75 shaft effectively ending my bareshaft testing. I didn't try bareshaft testing again for another year. The 2216s proved way overspined. Since I've learned to bareshaft test, I get better arrow flight than I ever was able to do before. Just my two cents.

Actually, and IMO, I think Russ's approach is probably the best - having access to a "test box" fulla different spined shafts that're pointed and nocked is a boon to very quickly finding what shafts will mostly work the best for ya. This is paticularly best yet for a freestyle FITA archer, where a vertical bow, and reliance on a bow sight, and left/right arrows at 90 meters or so, all comes into play ... again, IMHO.

Rob,I put together a set of varied length, varied spine arrows for our JOAD club and we find it invaluable in selecting the proper spined arrow. Charts don't really work since arrow selection has a large personal factor.

I was able to purchase an assortment of aluminum shafting from RJ Archery of Montana (I believe they deal mostly with hunting weight arrows) and an assortment of POC (tapered) shafting from Rogue River Archery. I collected an assortment of carbon shafting by robbing dozen lots of carbons I had purchased and have added to the collection with odd wood and target weight aluminums from my usual attrition of shooters. Bill's point about length is a good one. One length doesn't work for everyone and, of course, is one of the major factors with arrow tuning. Bareshaft testing gives you an idea of what shaft(s) work fairly well. Once you determine that, one can play with shaft length, point weight, and, at least with Gold Tips, nock weight for final tuning. I've become quite fond of Berger buttons for tweaking arrow tune - now if all my longbows only had buttons, LOL. I like to keep a few bareshafts with arrows that I'm shooting to make sure my tune is still good. Changing the string, brace height, or anything with form all has an effect on tuning.

Adcock's tuning information is great stuff. However, all the bareshaft tuning info I've read seems like a re-make of the Easton information. Easton's tuning guide also has compound tuning which I think further illustrates the concepts rather than confuses them, but maybe that's just me. Easton also gets into tuning at longer ranges which fascinates me even if I don't shoot well enough to emulate it.

Russ, for another method of tuning go to the Texas State Archery website (www.texasarchery.org), click on documents and scroll down to "Tuning for Tens."

Watch this Space. two of my PhD mech Eng students have constructed a shooting rig to give a definitave result to bare shaft. The basic set up is Bow fastened to custom made tubular frame secured to the lab floor. Attached to the release aid is a Z beam load transducer that controls a microswitch . The draw is achieved by a linea actuator. The process is; the actuator controlled by a P.C. controlled stepping motor draws the bow. The load cell is pre set to 40lbs, at 40lbs the load cell initiates the micro switch that releases the arrow. The aim is to detect the different dynamics of fletched and un fletched arrows. the results should be available in a couple of weeks

Philn This will probably be interesting to compound shooters but unless you can build in "paradox" it will not be as valuable to recurve/finger shooters.

BILLn Your absolutly right. Thats exactly the problem we`re working on at to moment. We`ve already done a brief study using small electro goniometers attached to fingers to record the angular changes the fingers make when releasing an arrow . We`re trying to duplicate the finger motion in a release mechanism.