Stickbow Target Archery Forums

I do have a tape of the latest Olympics -- mostly Americans, all at 70 meters. However, there are a few seconds devoted to the current top archer Michael Frangilli - he is visible for only one shot, but in that shot he draws back to his ear, then comes into anchor from the side. (Nobody else on the whole tape draws that way). To those of you who follow the sport more closely than I do -- does he usually shoot this way? And, if he is number one, and the only person that draws this way, can I say that his draw may be one reason he is number one? Or should I conclude that he is an especially gifted archer who gets away with a draw that would mess up most people who try it?

Michelle Frangilli is one of a small number of International level archers who anchor by placing their thumb behind the neck, a technique that Rick McKinney in "The Simple Art of Winning" refers to as "Ukranian technique". Stanislav Zabrodsky is another well known archer who uses this technique, and as you might expect, so do a number of Eastern European archers.

So the head movement you see is Michelle moving his head around his hand so he can get the thumb in place. Having tried this sort of thing myself (and found that it doesn't suit me), I would guess that he doesn't so much draw around to the side of his head and jaw as move his head around his hand.

According to his father Vittorio, this is a technique which suits people who focus much more on "pushing" from the shoulder through the clicker for the last part of the draw. Rick McKinney also notes that it is a very difficult technique to execute properly, and that many do not.

So, some people shoot like this, but many more do not. Like so many things in archery, it is a matter of personal preference. Obviously it works very well for Michelle.
Hope this helps a little. Happy to be corrected, as always.

This helps very much. Thanks.

And ... Where can I learn more about pushing from the shoulder?

Not from me - I'm a puller myself
In all seriousness, this approach Michele and others like him use seems very tricky to master. I would only consider trying it if I had a very good and trusted coach who knew the technique and whom I could learn from on a face-to-face basis.

I'm a bit wary of trying to learn perfect technique from watching others, no matter how good their scores are, because their technique is learned over many, many years of working extremely hard to find the form that suits them. IMHO, while you can learn certain things from watching the form of many top archers, it can be next to impossible to understand exactly what you are seeing and how to replicate it to best suit you. Even the Koreans, who in my opinion seem to come closest to ideal form, have individual variations in their technique.

Some people on the Sagi board might be able to tell you more about the principles of pushing rather than pulling (or focusing on one rather than the other), but I think it's one of the most difficult things to understand without a practical demonstration. YMMV of coursen
Gone on too long again. Apologies.

Thanks.

Yes, I was watching the Koreans too. I'd heard that they have a very regimented training program that doesn't leave many decisions to the archers -- but the Olympic gold and silver medalist women, both from Korea, used very different draws: one, a wonderfully smooth T draw; the other, the classic "Ray Axford" draw -- both hands start high, and pull down together. And, of course, both shot wonderfully.

I don't really believe in the push techniqu of going thru the clicker and then releasing. The proper way to position the bow shoulder prior to draw is with the scapula in its normal, lower relaxed position. This is where it should be at full draw with the arm firmly against the shoulder.

There is very little forward motion possible with the shoulder fixed in this position. The shoulder should not rise up during the draw. Perhaps "pushing" means do not allow the bow shoulder scapula rise during draw.

"Pushing thru the clicker" has always meant to me to keep a steady bow arm pressure, not to push it. The "push/pull" should come from the back squeeze.

The release hand thumb-behind-the-ear style has been in use for decades - Jim Pickering the thumb anchor with enormous success back in the 60's.

Bill - I think you're right. Personally, I just can't see the point in putting the front scapula under a heavy load and then trying to reposition it. Surely it's easier to position it against a light load and then apply the full weight of the bow. Oh well

All of these motions, whether pulling or pushing, are so subtle that I can't see any motion when looking at bow elbows or shoulders, or string elbows. I did look at where these archers are positioning the point of their arrow -- it seems like they have to move it only about an eighth of an inch to get through the clicker. And it often takes them three or four seconds to move that eighth of an inch.

Yup, that's what happens to me! And sometimes I can't even get it thru the clicker.

Julia and I have noticed that people who learned to use a clicker from the beginning of their archery have no problem pulling thru it. Those of us who learned our archery in the era prior to the clicker or shoot traditional archery tend to come to a firm anchor. It is then very difficult to start pulling again thru the clicker. The kids today learn to pull to a touch point and then keep pulling but a bit more slowly.